tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3161136885462262525.post3573473645648116697..comments2024-03-09T00:19:36.011-08:00Comments on Reading the Short Story: Alice Munro's "Gravel": New Yorker, June 27, 2011Charles E. Mayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11642048806407593585noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3161136885462262525.post-8069919801690198782023-07-31T09:55:24.890-07:002023-07-31T09:55:24.890-07:00I also think the narrator is a boy, I assumed it w...I also think the narrator is a boy, I assumed it was a girl (who then grew up to have a partner who was a woman - fair enough, good idea!) but then I reread it and decided the narrator seemed much more like a bossed about little brother than a sister and I also think the mother of two daughters would refer to them as “the girls” rather than “the kids”, she is a very particular wordsmith that Alice Munro! 😊Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3161136885462262525.post-2120554621911384222023-04-16T15:50:46.613-07:002023-04-16T15:50:46.613-07:00Hi Charles, I'm wondering if u r still expandi...Hi Charles, I'm wondering if u r still expanding your blog right now. 2023? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3161136885462262525.post-86119912872947709732019-08-28T09:42:50.650-07:002019-08-28T09:42:50.650-07:00Thank you for your insightful response, Ivan. A r...Thank you for your insightful response, Ivan. A reading of many other Munro's stories supports your analysis of this one.Charles E. Mayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11642048806407593585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3161136885462262525.post-56879025151703738782019-08-20T00:14:22.801-07:002019-08-20T00:14:22.801-07:00I think that both Caro and the mother are willing ...I think that both Caro and the mother are willing to take a leap into the unknown. The mother with her new life and Caro with her defiance. The other characters seem afraid and want to know but don’t have the courage to do so. Even at the end of the story, the narrator wishes to be told by Caro what happened. The narrator is waiting for news of the unknown. For this, the character of the mother and Caro are equivalent. The other characters can be lumped together in a group of those that are less courageous and maybe are all men. It is worth noting here that the two interpretations of the events are given by the partner of the narrator and the psychoanalyst, which are both women. In this story, it’s as if only woman venture out into the unknown. Neal, who provides the only explanation and is also a man, really ends up saying that he doesn’t know and that it doesn’t matter. The narrator’s father—despite how kind and accepting he is—isn’t any better than Neal or more effective. I would venture to say that the narrator is a man, since both the father of the children, Neal and the narrator seem indecisive and even weak when compared to the women of the story. In one scene we read that the father cries. In another scene Neal is left looking at his big toes. And the narrator seeks a psychoanalyst, which I believe is a woman to tell him (or her) what happened. For this reason, I think that if this pattern holds throughout the story, the narrator is a boy and later a man. It also seems important to point out that in this story men remain without knowing because of their lack to commit. We read it in Neal’s words. He’d rather bow out. On the other hand, and the only exception in the story, the father seems to be happy because he committed to being with Josie.Ivanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17599767679625717351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3161136885462262525.post-47515535436762126952016-12-30T07:24:03.615-08:002016-12-30T07:24:03.615-08:00So monica did you come up with any conclusion afte...So monica did you come up with any conclusion after reading this? Or what comes first in your mind when you started reading this??SKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14290672632433825604noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3161136885462262525.post-18888561657406222852016-01-28T04:32:47.386-08:002016-01-28T04:32:47.386-08:00I know this is an old post, but I think it's i...I know this is an old post, but I think it's interesting that you assumed the narrator to be female. Just based on the way the other characters speak to the narrator, I assumed male. But it seems Munro deliberately leaves it unclear since, in other stories, she usually does provide information about the narrator's appearance. <br /><br />There's also the less "feminine" spelling of Caro's name coupled with the mention of the mother's chosen name for the baby: "Its name was going to be Brandy--already was Brandy--whether it was a boy or a girl."<br /><br />Many of Munro's stories are set in the "women's lib" era, when it was fashionable to refer to one's partner as one's partner regardless of gender, as many academics (which the narrator is) still do now.Monica Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10871695072564990810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3161136885462262525.post-51141712008385730262011-10-31T09:08:49.824-07:002011-10-31T09:08:49.824-07:00Thanks for your responses. I agree with you, and w...Thanks for your responses. I agree with you, and when I say I don't like the narrator, what I mean is not that I dislike her. It's just that, as with so many of Munro's characters, I only like her as much as I can ever really like a whole real person. I'm not always comfortable in these stories.<br /><br />The mother's need for stability-- her falling back into her motherly ways once she is really pregnant-- contributes to my "stability" (or our need/desire for it) wins hypothesis. I do understand her character, and don't think she made a "mistake" necessarily (she is a far cry from Neal) in leaving her other life behind. But her cavelier attitude is a problem for me, as it is for the narrator. As a mother, it seems like a cautionary reminder of just how much my dreaming and scheming can affect my child... who has no real choice in the matter.<br /><br />Do you think there is some comment on how marriage, traditionally, infantalized women? The mother seems like a teenager in a way, one who matures perhaps after the tragedy, but a teenager at first with her idealism and naivity about living the bohemian life. <br /><br />I write all this, but (because?)I'm still unsure. I understand your five readings. Anyway, if these comments are getting tedious, please feel free to let this end here. Pinning Munro is so hard. She irks me, and yet, I always read her... voraciously and reluctantly if that makes sense.Laircehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07540815626156593392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3161136885462262525.post-53676032744648430802011-10-28T14:48:09.522-07:002011-10-28T14:48:09.522-07:00Lairce, I guess it is true that solidity "win...Lairce, I guess it is true that solidity "wins" in the long run, if life were only "solidity." But what about risk, staking a chance, trying to find out who you really are by role-playing? I truly dislike Neal for his selfishness, his refusal to take responsibility. And I can't really dislike the mother for leaving solidity for the shaky, if solidity is in no way fulfilling. And I cannot dislike the narrator. I agree that she seems to feel a sense of betrayal and loss, but also a sense of guilt for failing to act more quickly and positively when her sister was in danger. I understand her childhood hesitation, and I empathize with her adult anguish about that hesitation. As usual in Munro's stories, there is no quick fix for what she feels.Charles E. Mayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11642048806407593585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3161136885462262525.post-25652888465334205642011-10-28T08:49:55.807-07:002011-10-28T08:49:55.807-07:00I agree with your reading, but to add: Neal's ...I agree with your reading, but to add: Neal's character -- his lack of identity, his lack of solidity is directly related to his lack of morality, his failed responsibility (he is a coward too with the wolf, although, ironically, he claims sympathy for the mother-protecting-her-young, ironic because he is not protecting himself). It is within this context that we must frame his advice, which is the advice of someone who, in choosing not to feel guilt, chooses to feel nothing, to be nothing, to mean nothing (he writes plagiarized essays). He is inauthentic. <br />I think the story is the narrator's revenge in a way against the mother and Neal just as her choice not to act may be seen as a revenge against her mother (who Charo resembles). What I mean is that house that finally rests on the gravel pit, if you take it for the symbol of instability. The house, the home, the place the mother left is what ends up lasting, not the gravel pit. Certainty, solidity, wins. <br /><br />My problem is: I don't like this narrator. She seems bitter without being honest about it.<br />How do you feel about her?Laircehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07540815626156593392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3161136885462262525.post-63259951327912657792011-10-27T14:13:39.710-07:002011-10-27T14:13:39.710-07:00No concrete evidence that the central character is...No concrete evidence that the central character is female--only the convention that a man would have referred to his partner as "my wife," not "my partner." And it is the loose, shifting, nature of the gravel and the emptiness of the pit that could suggest the certainty/uncertainty theme that dominates the story throughout.Charles E. Mayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11642048806407593585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3161136885462262525.post-39488331236142302522011-10-27T12:51:58.440-07:002011-10-27T12:51:58.440-07:00I like it, but what concrete evidence do we have t...I like it, but what concrete evidence do we have that this narrator is female? (Other than the fact that s/he says s/he has a partner?)<br /><br />Also: that gravel pit. You quote, but don't analyze. Why do you think this quotation demonstrates a conflict between uncertainty and certainty?Laircehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07540815626156593392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3161136885462262525.post-38174662717220460232011-07-02T01:44:13.208-07:002011-07-02T01:44:13.208-07:00It's a story I like very much indeed for the w...It's a story I like very much indeed for the way Munro approaches unknowability through the pattern of the story.Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13770069472552779217noreply@blogger.com